A bit of positive news, in my opinion, from Chad Finn this morning, (Dale Arnold-Michael Holley reunion has worked for WEEI) as he reports that Michael Holley is about to sign a new deal with WEEI and that he and Dale Arnold will be remaining together in the afternoons on the station – along with Jerry Thornton.

Holley has his flaws, but in my limited dealings with him, he’s always been one of the more thoughtful and self-aware guys out there. The show is a nice contrast to the daily bombast of negativity that is the Felger and Mazz show, and their ratings are reflecting that. While still trailing F&M by over 5 ratings points, Dale and Holley posted a strong 8.0 rating in the fall book.

There are plenty of vocal haters out there of both Dale and Holley, but I find myself appreciative of their style and I’m glad WEEI management is recognizing their success and keeping the show going.

****

It’s early, but I think the Marc Bertrand/Scott Zolak pairing on 98.5 mid-days is going to be fine, and perhaps even an upgrade on the year-round basis. The football stuff might take a small step back, but Bertrand has a better all-around sports knowledge base and ability to talk about other sports than Andy Gresh did.

****

But we can trust these guys to be objective when talking about the team? Klemko himself said the Patriots should lose all of their 2015 draft picks and railed about them cheating and getting away with it.

He should probably stick to beating up cab drivers and stealing cabs.

***

It was somewhat odd to hear Danny Ainge trash the conditioning of Jared Sullinger yesterday morning on the Toucher and Rich show on 98.5. While it is no great surprise to anyone who looks at Sullinger that he would have issues with conditioning, it is rare to hear a team executive in any sport so publicly criticize his own player in this manner.

Ainge is no fool though. For the last few years he managed to keep Rajon Rondo’s trade value at least somewhat level by defending the player at every turn. If he’s saying these things about Sullinger, there must be a reason for it as well. The trade deadline is past, no further moves are going to be made until after the season. Sullinger isn’t going to play again this season, so the comments by Ainge likely were meant to attempt to light a fire under the talented yet seemingly unmotivated young forward.

Published by Bruce Allen

Automattician.

53 thoughts on “Dale and Holley Sticking Around A Bit Longer”

  1. Life is funny sometimes. Several years ago Dale & Holly weren’t deemed good enough to compete with Gresh & Zo. Now Gresh is gone and Dale & Holly are the guys who giving F&M a run for their money. My new routine is to listen to D&H live and i podcast F&M. If I don’t see anything different from the usual bitch fest on F&M I just swipe delete.

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      2. They were…that is my point. WEEI management OBVIOUSLY didn’t agree and blew up their midday show when it was the only show winning it’s slot.

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  2. Did Ordway want too much money to return or was that never a real option?
    The last few years it seemed like it was inevitable that Ordway would be coming back. Now what?

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  3. It would appear that Danny’s patience is running thin (no pun intended) with Lazy Sully. During the Summer of 2013, he was shut down in recovery from surgery.

    Fast forward to 2014, here is Bulpett last June:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2014/06/jared_sullingers_summer_takes_shape

    After taking a break to let his body heal from the wounds of the season, Sullinger is going about the task of changing his body into something more suited for the NBA marathon.

    What the heck did Sully do for the rest of the Summer?
    Here is a NESN article from September:

    http://nesn.com/2014/09/jared-sullinger-no-longer-feels-behind-the-eight-ball-health-wise/

    This year’s Jared Sullinger’s also appears to be a bit slimmer than last year’s edition, but he wasn’t about to divulge this information. “Maybe,” Sullinger said when asked if he has lost a few pounds. “I can’t tell you everything, but maybe.”

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    1. Just get him on what these other players are taking. A lot of these NBA players look like 1990’s baseball players. No one is talking about it but it’s obvious.

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      1. Been obvious for quite some time. I mean, Greg Oden put on what, thirty pounds of muscle during his first season, after the microfracture surgery? And nobody said a thing. It was reported without comment. And I think it’s no coincidence that hoops players are remaining productive so much farther into their 30s than ever before. I exempt nobody from suspicion, including the likes of Garnett, Paul Pierce and Kobe.

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  4. The Dale and Holley with Thorton Shows proves my theory that Dale Arnold is the best radio guy in Boston. Carrying those 2 to an 8+ rating must be mind boggling to the suits at 98.5 who every day must thank their lucky stars they did not pair Felger with Mike Holley way back when.

    Bruce, I am not as generous as you. I can’t listen to Mike Holley at all. He says nothing of substance, an argument I don’t have to repeat. His space fillers are akin to dead air (I never need to hear about life growing up in Ohio ever again). I will say this, i think Dale Arnold likes Mike Holley and they get along (something that cannot be said about some of Dale’s other on air partners). That congeniality comes through on the air. Still, I find it hard to believe a Dale and Rob Bradford show would not have been a far better option for WEEI and given F&M a real run for their money.

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    1. Dale likes Holley?? Liberal Dale LOVES Holley. Take a guess why. I’ve always found Dale Flanders to be boring as hell, but I really soured on him when he was paired with Holley because suddenly the guy lost his already raisin sized balls. He never had a problem challenging Eddie Andelman, but he’s always folded like a house of cards when it comes to disagreeing with AA Michael Holley. It’s pathetic. He agrees with Holley like Mazz agrees with Felger.

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      1. Couldn’t disagree more. Sorry, maybe we just see this differently but I have heard Dale and Michael go back and forth plenty of times. Just because there isn’t animosity between the two when they disagree doesn’t make the argument any less compelling.

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        1. But see, Dale has no problem going ballistic on a caller — I hear him do it on the reg. And he had no problem going ballistic on Eddie Andelman when they were cohosts. But Dale NEVER does it to Holley. He doesn’t automatically agree with Holley from the start a la Mazz, but he either quickly gives in or agrees to disagree. And it’s not out of respect or some effort to rise above the current sports talk radio yell-a-thon landscape. Let’s be honest: It’s because Holley is black. Dale Arnold is the poster child for mindless liberal white guilt.

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          1. I have heard Dale use the same biting, “Oh but you’ve got the answer?” on both callers and Michael. Not sure where the idea of Dale being liberal comes from. Unless he’s had a major shift politically he has always voted republican. I know for a fact that he voted twice for Bush and for McCain. Couldn’t tell you what happened in the last one, but historically Dale votes republican, at least nationally.

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          2. Dale Arnold is a wear-a-shirt-while-I-swim conservative. Or an only-look-women-in-the-eyes-because-I-have-a-daughter conservative. He’s afraid of offending anyone. When Joe Namath drunkenly told Suzie Kolber that he wanted to kiss her, I remember Dale being beside himself because, to him, Kolber is one of the best in the business and shouldn’t have to deal with being objectified. Which was fine (other than the best in the business part). But then he through in something about how men should be professional enough to overlook her beauty. It was ridiculous. Everyone knew Kolber was a dog. It made the whole incident that much more uncomfortable. Even Holley was like, uh…yeah…she’s attractive.

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      3. Disagree. Dale disagrees with Holly all the time. No one can ever top Tony the Parrot.

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      4. Dale is very conservative, although he keeps it to himself. I remember Ordway saying that Dale was to the right of him! But it doesn’t alter your point.

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    2. Been awhile… One thing I’ve always been curious about and I’m not sure if anyone here knows, but there seems to be alot of vitriole anytime Dale is mentioned to Jimmy Stewart, and also jokes thrown to Wallach. Is it something specific that happened that seems to have isolated the former flash guy and producer of the original D&H show. Always wondered about that.

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      1. I’d love a paraphrased example of what you’re talking about. And even without one, I’d like to speculate. Ever had a male coworker who, for whatever reason, was so uptight that it forced you to be vigilante about what you said around him for fear of causing offense? You essentially had to treat him like a female coworker. Dale Flanders strikes me as that type of guy. And in my experience dealing with those types leads to resentment.

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    4. I like Thornton but I hope someone over there tells him not to try and crowbar a joke into every sentence. Tone it down a bit Jerry.

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  5. Brought up by others, but could you imagine if Dez Bryant was a Patriot and there was a “rumored” tape out there showing him doing something bad?

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    1. I was thinking the same thing. There are people on twitter telling writers to stop commenting on something there is no proof of but were the same people killing the Patriots for deflate gate. I have yet to see Kravitz or Doyel alert the world that Bryant needs to be banned from the league.

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      1. If you listened to the Schefter interview, I think on ESPN Chicago, he treads so damn carefully on the entire topic. Florio was a bit more gossipy, but both would still not go as far to saying much more than what Terez Owens and other sites had put out there.

        Again, keyword is restraint. Schefter is 100x more responsible than Florio, but with he being so “restrained” (compared to what he usually does, a la Deflategate), I wondered if there were possible legal ramifications. And, as of this post, there is still no tape out there. Who knows if it’ll ever come out.

        This TBL post kinda sums it up:
        http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/27/the-instant-historian-confirming-dez-bryant-rumors-exist-is-now-journalism/

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        1. I have little doubt that Jerry Jones has threatened to unleash all of his lawyers on whoever divulges details of the incident without actually having the video to back it up. And maybe the NFL is backing him up on this.

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  6. The WEEI afternoon drive show would have the same ratings or better if it were still Ordway and Holley. Dale has nothing to do with it. Axing Big O was an overreaction. O&H ratings were down because 98.5 as a whole was surging. Bringing in Salk was an unreal miscalculation. Bringing back Ordway would have had the same effect as bringing in Dale.

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    1. Ordway and Holley was unlistenable. Ordway is best when he is moderator not opining. On the O&H show because they got rid of the “specialist” guests he was forced to give his opinion something that showed time and again he was over his head. Couple that with Holley’s inability to say anything of substance and that show was a train wreck. The ratings had fallen into the 6’s and they were trending down. Couple that with his 7 digit contract and WEEI had to get rid of him.

      I do think you ask a good question…in my opinion I do not think Ordwady and Holley would be as good a show or have the same ratings trending in the same direction as D&H. The difference between Glenn and Dale is subtle. I think Dale runs a better show…always has. I think his understated but well researched approach has served him well for years. With Glenn he thinks he knows sports when in reality what he knows is how to get a panel to discuss sports. It is a good talent but his ego coupled with either marketing research or idiotic station management changed his show format and approach away from ring leader and into being just another talking head. His internet radio show continues this format. his weekend show on Sirrus XM is the same mess. The dirty secret is no one really cares for what Ordway has to say…people did like and probably still remember how he had other people say it for him.

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      2. “The dirty secret is no one really cares for what Ordway has to say…”

        I agree.

        The Big Show, at it’s apex, was great because of the humor (Pete Gustin bits, the producers, making fun of Glenn, Pete, Larry, Mazz, Felger, Steve, Fred, etc.), not because of Big O’s (or any other of the aforementioned names) wisdom.

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      3. ltd, I know you’re a Dale fan and I respect that. And you know I’m not a fan, but respect it as well. We’ll never agree on this topic, but I feel it’s akin to when David Letterman first moved to CBS. Leno was the king of late night talk at the time. Leno’s ratings went down from day one of Letterman’s debut cause it was something new. But eventually, after a couple of years, Leno’s ratings went back to what they had been. O&H’s ratings were down because F&M and 98.5 as a whole were hot. The increase in ratings for D&H isn’t about Dale. It’s about F&M inevitably losing its freshness while also, essentially, becoming the condescending product that WEEI was at its zenith. The uptick in ratings would have happened for O&H too. Probably sooner if EEI hadn’t overreacted to the ratings situation and brought in a horrible host in Salk.

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        1. Oswee:

          I respect your opinion (otherwise I would not have responded to it. Where I disagree with you is your belief that Ordways show would have rebounded. My contention is that once they moved him from mediator to opiner that his show was doomed. Had they left the original format and just tinkered with the guests…making them more informative and less Buckley, DeOzzie or Sterns like then you are probably right that the ratings would have rebounded. But my understanding is that Ordway resisted each and every attempt to restructure the show until he was basically threatened. They paid him a lot of money, more than anyone in the market including Felger with his new deal, and when the ratings started to fall they were looking at return on investment.

          I think the Dale and Holley show is gaining on F&M because as you say it is an alternative. Let me reiterate how bad I think Mike Holley is…he is death on the stick. So for that show to be gaining it is in spite of Holley.

          As an aside…I really like Glenn. I thought the Big Show was always better radio than most. I hated the addition of Holley to that show and the complete revamping that then happened. All I wanted was an elimination of guests who sucked. I will say this…I have tried more than a few times to listen to the Big Show Unfiltered and it is painful. It emphasizes all of Gleen’s weaknesses and non of his strengths. I am not sure if that is due to his ego, access or just lousy guidance. Maybe the real solution would have been a Dale and Orway show to counter Felger and Mazz but I think that show would have had problems if Glenn was opining rather than moderating.

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    2. IIRC, the old “Big Show” started to lose to F+M around late 2010 or sometime during 2011, coinciding with the Bruins run.

      If you search through the site, I think posts with the numbers are filed under “Ratings”, but there’s probably a few posts Bruce did from around then that either have the stats or link to a Chad Finn column that have them.

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    1. Jesus. Read the details of this story. The kid clearly killed himself, but Peter King still tries to make it about himself. Disgusting.

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    2. Peter king is a fraud clown. Stopped reading him when he lost the weight. He became a miserable bitch. The dude needs to go pig out somewhere

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  11. I’m always a fan of Schilling because he’s one of the rare guests who doesn’t just E’or you or reiterate whatever the talking points are. Don’t care for his politics but I rather when someone is honest and tells how they really feel.

    I guess his daughter recently got accepted to college and he did what any dad would do, Tweeting our a congrads/announcement. The stuff he got back was nothing short of vile and wrote a great post about it.

    https://38pitches.wordpress.com/2015/03/01/the-world-we-live-in-man-has-it-changed/

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    1. Curt is extremely naive and very good at playing the victim.

      There are a lot of nasty people and a lot of them have Twitter accounts.

      Curt is well known for talking $hit to people on Twitter and yet he expect that people will not talk $hit back to him, including about his daughter on twitter?

      Yes, I’m blaming the victim, in this case, because again, Curt is an experience, adult and should have expected this to happen.

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      1. You know if the vitriol had only been directed at Curt, I might believe you that he was naive, and I also think that we would have never of heard of this because he would have let it all pass. He is a celebrity, he makes his money by being famous…dealing with animus created by anonymous key board warriors comes with the territory.

        What put this over the top is the vitriol was directed at his daughter in a way that has to make her feel slightly unsafe especially when she gets to college next year. As such as the parent of 2 daughters (one a high school JR and the other a high school sophomore) I applaud his stand. I think exposing people and shining a light on them for what they said, holding them accountable is both admirable and brilliant. Too often we let things slide. Too often we chalk it up to the nebulous “internet” and the lack of “internet police”. Well the real world has consequences. Nothing happens in a vacuum and these people are learning that their actions are about to have long term repercussions. I hope the momentary jolly they received from bullying and harassing an 18 year old girl who made the mistake of being born to a famous father was worth the absolute poo storm they have stepped into.

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    2. Full disclosure: Don’t like the guy. That said. He states that he expected to get some juvenile, frat boy humor type responses. Well, he should have expected that it would go way beyond that as well. I mean, come on. And why even subject his daughter to the tamer stuff that he expected? And what exactly is the point of announcing the news to the public? Pride? Well, if he’s proud, that’s nice. But why share that pride with complete strangers? Does that do something for him or his daughter? How about just letting family and friends know? The reality is that Schilling loves this drama. That’s why he puts this stuff out there. This is exactly in line with his personality. He essentially entrapped these morons and now he’s going to ruin their lives. Stupid.

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      1. Public people do it all the time:

        Nothing there in terms of the response Schilling got. Did Collinsworth also want this drama?

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        1. I don’t know what Collinsworth wanted, but if he got the same response that Schilling did then I’d have the same reaction. I’d have that reaction to anyone who announces information to strangers. Post on Facebook about how great your vacation at Disney World is going and then your house gets robbed? Well you didn’t deserve it, but you’re also a moron.

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  12. It’s basically the opposite of PTI, where, even when Tony and Mike agree on all the main aspects of a topic, they still yell and find minor points to oppose each other on. I do find the civility of Dale & Holley a refreshing change from other talk radio, but I’ll admit–I do like the excitement of douchebag radio.

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