Welcome to the Monthly Weekly?? Sports Media Mailbag! Here are comments and emails from you, the readers, with insight on your favorite sports media personalities. To contribute to the mailbag, either shoot me an email at Hadfield.Ryan@gmail.com, hit me up on Twitter @Hadfield__, or leave a response in the comments section of any one of my columns.
Took a vacation from my vacation in Key West to finish writing this (fifth!) edition of the Sports Media Mailbag. In addition to this, if you have time to kill at your desk, check out my recent columns for Metro Boston on the Nike Tiger Woods ad and my ranking of the current best home(field/ice/court) advantage in Boston. I hope you guys enjoy. As always, thanks for reading.
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Does anyone really know what is going on with the morning show? I know you wrote: “I’m told the Kirk Minihane seclusion is a very real thing.” It is painful. It’s bad. It’s extremely odd. I almost get the impression that John Dennis is now Peter from Office Space but the Bob’s have not come yet. They’re now doing a Sweet 16 of “Female Boston News Personalities”. 60 year-old guys gawking at women in their 20s on the radio?
The Kirk Minihane thing is fantastic because he is so candid about it. From my conversations with him in the past, I’m not shocked. That’s how he is. It’s how he’s always been. On Twitter, he’s openly mocking the happenings on the show he is purportedly involved in, but in reality, not actually part of. It’s subversive and it’s very real.
As far as the other part to the question, I’m writing something on this for next week, but here is a quick summary of the morning radio wars: For my money, good sports radio comes down to two things — compelling discourse and likability. The former has never really been a problem for Gerry Callahan and John Dennis, but the latter is burning them right now (kind of the same way it’s burning “Felger & Mazz”, except “Dennis & Callahan”‘s plight has been slow and painful. “Felger & Mazz” are seemingly racing towards self-sabotage). Meanwhile the competition, “Toucher and Rich”, have had the likability aspect locked down since they hit the airwaves, and producers have done a nice job working in call-ins from experts to mask any perceived defenciency talking sports. It’s night and day, really.
Ryan,
Do you have anything original to bring to this column, honestly? Everything you write is a regurgitation of Bill Simmons, Drew Magary, or Mike Tunison style of writing. From the Gregggg to the rip down of local columnists (ala Peter King or Gregg Easterbrook), to the mailbag. Its just so old. Are you really trying to copy writers that are already getting tiresome. Pop-media sports has found its niche. You are not a part of that, find your own style style.
-jmu
True story: My family sees these mailbags and far too often I’m left explaining to my mom that the internet, by nature, is a negative sphere. People aren’t going to go on Yelp and write a good review (unless it’s fantastic and life changing), but they’ll be quick to bash the restaurant that is slow with service. I read Drew Magary but never really check out his takedowns of Gregg Easterbook. Which, in retrospect, looks like a complete ripoff joke. Bad job by me. Won’t happen again.
That aside — and I think readers will attest to this — this media column, now running on its third year, has its own voice and style. The takedown pieces are meant to be brash and boisterous. This probably because I freelance for Metro Boston (which I love doing), but am devoid of a full-time gig. And that’s transparent bitterness on my part. But I take pride in the actual media columns and these mailbags. I try to write with a critical eye (while hopefully holding some entertainment value). Is it an amalgam of some of my favorite writers? Probably. But isn’t that expected to some degree?
And hey, if you want to take one column and use that to judge my body of work, then go for it. Kind of short-sighted, but go for it. Either way, thanks for reading.
You do know that people who spell their name “Gregg” spell it that way because their parents named them that way. People who spell their name “Greg” are really named “Gregory”. -DrakeW
I love everything about this. Thanks for that.
So you are still on the Mike Holley bandwagon. Please explain to me what he does or says that let’s you believe that even if you could have gone back in your DeLorean and moved Dale and Holley to the afternoon that would have worked. Your idea still contains Mike Holley. Other than he is a nice guy, articulate and can write reasonably okay…I don’t see why he has not been banished from the radio. – latetodinner
Underrated subplot of the radio wars has been Michael Holley. He is clearly beloved by the suits over on Guest Street. Holley has been given the keys to the car. There has to be a part of him, though, that is nervous. It’s what I call “good nerves,” meaning butterflies, not jitters. Like if I was given a column at the Boston Globe or New York Times. For me, again, it comes back to likability and compelling discourse. Holley has plenty of the former, and the latter is lacking, but I respect the hell out of him for not going Media Troll on us after abandoning his journalism gig.
This is a guy whose covered the Celtics and Patriots beat (and possibly more, can’t recall), and was once a columnist for the Globe. You know who had a similar career arc? Michael Felger and Tony Massarotti. Notice a difference in how the two handle their business? I do. And it’s refreshing. Of course, ratings don’t take any of that into account, so the question, obviously, becomes whether or not he can he carry a show? The answer, even after all these years, is I don’t know.
I loved, loved, LOVED the few times he was paired with Tom E. Curran or Minihane. Maybe that’s because I know the parties involved. Mike Salk, thus far, hasn’t resonated quite like I wished he would going in, but it’s still a feeling out process. Regardless, it’s a big year for Holley professionally. And yeah, I guess his style gels with what I’m looking for — measured takes that are less LOOK AT ME! and more “Here’s the reasoning why I think __.”
Plus, “banished from the radio” is a little harsh. Don’t you think, LateToDinner?
Two things that I am just baffled by at 98.5, which I have been an avid listener of since it debuted.
1. With such great up and coming talent (Bertrand and Hardy for example) how on earth does a guy like Andy Gresh keep his job? He is AWFUL!! Seriously, he has pictures of a big wig over there, right? The only explanation. Even if he was reasonably intelligent, his voice alone gives me post concussion syndrome. He brings out the worst in Zolak, it really reminds me of listening to the dark days of the Big Show with Smerlas and Deossie.
2. When the ratings are looked at, do they look at individual days? Love them or hate them Felger and Mazz ( I am of the former, they are head and shoulders better than every other program) make great radio, EXCEPT Tuesdays. Jermaine Wiggins on air equals this guy tuning into the other station.
Am I the only one out there that thinks this????
Dave in Gardner
Speaking of measured takes, how about Marc Bertand and Chris Gasper in the midday? Bertrand is funny and knowledgeable. Gasper is smart and does well articulating his points. The duo developed a nice rapport doing a morning show on Saturdays for The Sports Hub that I wish I heard more of.
I have written extensively about Andy Gresh in this space before. I’ll admit he will grow on me at times, but his monologues are tough to listen to, and he comes across as pompous. There is an authoritative tone, then there is “I’m right, you’re wrong.” Gresh falls on the wrong side of that fence for me. Also, I can’t help but notice him berating listeners on Twitter. Reminds me of the same hubris that took down WEEI.
Re Jermaine Wiggins: This is what I wrote from the first “Sports Media Musings” Bruce Allen published back in the summer of 2011 (yeesh!). It still holds true:
Maybe not as grating, but unfortunately Wiggins is the Mike Adams of 98.5′s afternoon drive show. He either struggles articulating his point, or doesn’t have one — I still am trying to figure out which it is. Bottom line: “Wiggy Wednesdays” are as entertaining as the pending NFL lockout.
Who says there is any “intel” to extract from Lou Merloni? – wdriii
Guys like Scott Zolak and Lou Merloni could — and should — use their experience in the locker room playing at the highest level (albeit in a backup role) and provide audiences with the nuances the common fan can’t see. Surely, from their experiences, they must see the game in a different light than the rest of us. Right? I don’t see why they don’t channel that unique perspective more often is all.
Ryan,
I generally love your insights, but for the love of god, please get off of Simmons’ stick. I agree that Grantland is great, but notwithstanding that he the most powerful man in sports business, Simmons has become way to proud of himself and his writing has suffered for it. – Ted Sarandis
Agreed. I probably write about Bill Simmons too often for this space. And yeah, the writing has gone down hill, but his presence on TV has vastly improved (and increased); not to mention, the live stream during March Madness could catch on. Just look at this snippet from Richard Deitsch’s “Media Circus” column over at SI.com (special thanks to reader BSMFAN.)
As Sports Business Daily media writer John Ourand observed: “What’s to stop Turner’s Ernie Johnson, Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley from putting on their own online halftime show around the NBA Finals, even though the games are on ABC? Or how about NBC firing up its 30 Rock studio to have Dan Patrick, Tony Dungy and Rodney Harrison analyze ESPN’s Monday Night Football games online, starting with a couple of minutes left in the first half?”
This is fine, what is everyone complaining about? Isn’t this the guy everyone crowned the new king of sports talk radio in this city? You all (Felger fans) complained about Ordway and his opinions, you ran him out of town by giving Felger your ears, You’re already complaining about Mike Salk and it’s not even a month. You’re okay with personal bashing and stepping over the line, you’ve traded that for real sports talk and you’ve all allowed Felger to brain wash you into believing his “Tell it like it is style” is the way to go. So enjoy it, don’t complain. As For me, I’m fine with EEI, as far as local goes, anything but Felger and Mazz. – Will
I guess I should just come out and say that I don’t have a problem with Felger’s Jeff Green heart surgery remark from last week. When you’re on air for 27 hours a day, you’re subject to capricious miscues. I don’t think Felger would put that in print. Comedy is meant to be (somewhat) offensive, Green is still alive, and so on and so forth. Sounds matter of fact, but it’s just how I feel. Sticks and stones.
Still, would I have made the remark? Do I think it was in bad taste?
Absolutely not. And yes, it was crass. But all I’m saying is that it happens, and when it does, it’s usually worse than what Felger said (e.g. Doug Gottlieb’s “white man perspective” comment during CBS Sports coverage of the NCAA tournament).
As far as giving him the platform: I’d like to think the two are mutually exclusive, Will. Glenn Ordway’s success proved to have as much to do with the lack of competition as his actual show. That doesn’t mean whatever siege “Felger & Mazz” are on in recent weeks should go unnoticed.
The thing that gets me about their show is how there’s seldom any actual INSIGHT into the games being played on the field — something, once upon a time, Felger used to be good at. Now they usually bypass an actual dissection of the game itself for long-winded rants about how Belichick is clueless, Kraft is a liar, Chiarelli sucks, the Celtics suck, the Red Sox suck, the Red Sox ownership sucks…taking shots at reporters covering the Pats…taking shots at players….basically, everyone sucks except for Cam Neely. Got it!” – Andre Dursin
Bingo! This! Just everything about this. I had a bigger issue with Felger saying Green sucks. Because he doesn’t. And if Felger watched basketball, he’d see that. Parading ideas about ownership or coaches is fine, too, but the show has become four hours of hypothetical ulterior motives. It’s exhausting at times.
When Tim McCarver initially started out as a baseball analyst — initially locally in Philly and subsequently on nationally broadcast games — following his playing days (including the proverbial cup of coffee with the Red Sox in the mid-’70s), he was quite enjoyable and very good. Somewhere along the line he became an insufferable, drooling tool which, I believe, started shortly after he was paired with that smug, quintessential DB, Joe Buck.
Want a good Tim McCarver career obit? The best I found, by far, was from Brian Curtis. Great juxtaposition with John Madden‘s old style. Really great read.
On that note, as always, thanks for reading! We’ll do it again sooner rather than later. If you’re bored Out There, give me a shout on Twitter @Hadfield__.
Boston Sports Media Watch 
Here’s the problem with Felger: Mazz.
Mazz has not grown one iota since getting this gig, in fact he has regressed. Everything is YARM and upper register squealing. Lately Felger doesn’t even engage Tony in a give and take. Felger makes a statement, Mazz squeals, Fleger restates, Mazz resqueals.
I feel that Fleger still has a higher upside if he could only get with someone who could complement his strengths. Mazz is holding the show back.
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But to be fair, Siggy…how often is there grounds for serious disagreement among commentators? Between print, radio and TV, I’ve heard a lot of very similar assessments over the past several weeks: (1) Celts should beat everybody in the East except Miami in the playoffs, if they’re healthy; (2) Sox should be a little better than .500, and could contend for a wild-cart spot; (3) The Bruins needed a forward and a defenseman. On a lot of issues in sports, it’s not rocket science and disagreements would be contrived. (Not every issue, of course.)
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Felger is better with Beetle.
Beetle challenges Felger all the time when he’s paired with him.
I love Felger’s shtick but I do agree that for a no.1 show it does have a weak spot and that is Mazz.
A guy like Felger needs someone to challenge him more and Mazz just doesn’t do it.
I think it’s because Mazz was so desperate for years to get a permanent gig on the radio and now that he got one only because Merloni turned it down,he is going to kiss Felgers ass to keep that gig.
And I still say Merloni has to be kicking himself everyday that he didn’t take that gig. It must’ve been the concussions he suffered from that clouded his judgement.
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I find myself turning on Holley more and more these days. I’ve come to grips to LTD’s points over the years. I’ve defended Holley but have come to see that he just doesn’t offer much..
However……… if anyone remembers, I do feel that Felger and Holley had great rapport back on WEEI when Felger would fill in ANNNNDDDD I think that Holley actually challenged Felger unlike the squeak. Strange considering how little he seems to offer anywhere else.
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Ryan:
Thank you for your vague and nondescript answer to the question I posed. I don’t think my reaction to Holley is harsh. What continually amazes me is the excuses people make for him:
– He covered the Patriots for the Globe so he has pedigree. So did Ron Borges but I don’t think he is a quality journalist. So did Burt Breer and he is absolute idiot. I have made this point over and over but it bears repeating…for someone with the access Holley has you would think he would write or talk with more substance…or any substance. Mike Reiss and Tom E Curran have had similar access to the Patriots as Holley and each time they say or write something i learn something new. Holley has written two mediocre books on the Patriots after being afforded unbelievable access. It is maddening to listen to him talk football because he does not say anything other than the obvious. It is like listening to Joe Morgan do baseball.
– He covered the Celtics for the Globe. I have always wondered if people accredit Mike Holley as a “hoops” guy more for racial reasons than talent reasons because if you used to listen to him when he was paired with Ordway, it was clear that other than a High School relationship with LeBron’s mother he brings nothing to basketball conversations. Ordway clearly was driving that train and his knowledge was 20 years old.
– Have you listened to the forced hockey talk. That is must listen to radio. When I wake up in the morning I think…I hope Holley will talk Bruins today…his take on Khudobin v Tuuka…now that I want to hear.
He has been teamed with 2 Boston Sports Talk legends and was part of the demise of both shows. Dale carried Eddie Andelman for god’s sake and even when they took him off the air still had ratings with Holley better than anything the midday at 98.5 was doing. Yet the management perception is Holley is the rising star and Dale needed to be marginalized. Holley moves to drive and the Drive ratings plummet. The Holley and Salk show so far has been unlistenable. Salk has little to no passion and Holley has little to no knowledge. It is the perfect team.
Again I ask you…what makes you think Holley is a competent sportstalk host. This “its an important year for him” caca does not answer the question. It is your way of ducking the question. So let me ask it a different way…can you think of a classic Holley moment? Can you imagine a story where you sat there and said Holley will be on fire today, I can’t wait to hear his take? Or can you think of a time where you were anticipating listening to a Holley show because you thought in advance…hey I will learn something new today?
Because I can’t positively answer any of those questions I think he should be banned from the airwaves. We, in Boston, deserve better. I will say this…I bet Holley would be awesome in the Portland/Seattle markets.
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I think like you that Holley is sooooo overrated. And his commentary on anything with the Patriots is a disappointment.
I believe he talks about the Patriots and Red Sox in a measured way not because he is this intellectually superior talk show host who wants to raise the bar but because he’s always looking for his next book deal. He will never say anything negative about Belichicks personal moves for fear of being shut out of Foxboro.
Holley could day a lot more on various personalities in town and he could get real and really tell it like it is with the local teams if he wanted to but Holley won’t. Holley is only interested in protecting his friends and writing fluff books with them.
He does a disservice to his employer WEEI. It’s no wonder you rarely see him on CSSNE anymore.
I’ll say again…he makes Dale Arnold sound like Malcom X. 🙂
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Spot on.
If you had to boil something down to a litmus test, I think you worded it perfectly:
“So let me ask it a different way…can you think of a classic Holley moment?”
Compare it to: Does anyone care when John Kruk talks about baseball? Barry Melrose tries to talk hockey? Magic Johnson giving some fine NBA analysis? Click, click, and click.
Same thing I think with quite a few here like when I’ve made cases wondering why Merloni is on the radio, as you have with Holley. As I’ve been giving S+H a chance, I find the same thing with him. You want to tell him to.. make a point or give you some interesting take.. it’s just not there..
Is it the tone? Delivery? It’s one thing to have a good point or argument but if you can’t articulate it on a medium like the radio, it’s like asking Jermaine Wiggens to read Shelley’s Frankenstein.
Now, as much as they can drive me nuts and have really done some silly things lately, I’ll admit that I want to hear his take on things. It’s not a defense of how he covers things but one of the reasons why he has succeeded here.
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Salk’s diction is as bad as Holley’s. He has almost zero sense for dramatic pause or emphasis. Felger is, and Ordway was, superb at emphasizing particular syllables to make his statements more emphatic. Both Salk and Holley tend to spill their words out diarrhea-style. Even when Holley gets a little emphatic, it’s in that I’m-not-really-shouting shout which almost undercuts his own energy.
That aside, S&H rarely if ever have a worthwhile point. Though folks criticize Felger for harping on his predetermined angles–Rondo sucks, Claude is too conservative, Belichick is lousy at drafting receivers and D-backs, or any of the others–he enjoys going to bigger-picture, where-is-this-headed type questions. (At the expense of focusing on more game-by-game details.) Salk and Holley are doing the opposite: focusing on the minutiae, or wasting time comparing playing defenseman in the NHL to QB’ing in the NFL (really not a smart response to Jack Edwards’ assertion to how tough playing defenseman is), discussing the hottest Golden Girl–they just have a gift for sitting on inane topics.
And they desperately need to get ditch both Mike’d Up and Question Jerk. It’s bad enough that Holley has already defended the utterly uncreative name, Mike’d Up, nearly a dozen times already. The callers suck. They need to shorten the end-of-show wrapup, from thirty minutes to about ten, and take it away from the callers. Maybe something like, I don’t know, run a few of the stupidest sports-world-related quotes of the past few days, with a bit of commentary on each? If these guys aren’t of the type to bust each other’s and callers’ balls on air–and they’re plainly not–then caller-based humor at the end of the show just isn’t going to work.
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I said before that I just can’t put my finger on the “why” where I don’t feel like its clicking as well as it could. LTD has continued to make a compelling case that it’s Holley. I’ve had enough time to sample both as to where, unless Felger starts going into one of his tantrums about Welker/Patriots or I’m in the car and can’t get a signal, I’m still not changing the dial on a regular basis.
To remphasize this, I thought this stuck out with Chad Finn’s media chat today:
(Jason Coyote was the user — same one here?)
Q: Have any early thoughts on EEI’s Salk & Holley show? While I find the lack of hysterics that you might hear at the same time over on 98.5 to be refreshing, I don’t find the pair to be very compelling. Their monotone sound would seem to make them better suited for a midday slot as opposed to ratings-driven afternoon drive. While I wish S&H well trying to not be Felger and Mazz-ish, I don’t think too many younger folks are going to be searching them out anytime soon.
3:36 Chad Finn: It’s … pleasant, I guess. Seems fairly promising, but as someone over there told me, they’ve got to get the ESPN out of him. Needs to be a little more freewheeling — the show feels structured and formal so far, which I guess makes sense since these guys are still getting used to working together. Know what I’ve realized recently? It’s very rare when the sum is greater than the individual parts in sports radio. Toucher and Rich make each other better. Think Dale/Minihane/Gerry would do the same. But I can’t think of another show locally where multiple hosts thrive together more than they would as individuals. Bet Felger/Callahan or Felger/Holley would be a show that worked that way.
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One thing everyone has agreed on: I saw nothing but people wanting the same to the 4PM and 5:30 segments. They’re bad. It’s as bad as the 2hours F+M waste with Wiggens but I guess it works for them.
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Yeah, a while ago I thought Wiggens was OK but as time’s gone on he’s become painful to listen to. Even Felger mocks him (gently) from time to time, especially when he tries to talk numbers. (“See, that’s what I worry about with you…” after Jermaine butchers another simple stat.)
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LTD, you going to back up your claim that Ellsbury was held back by the Red Sox?
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No I was wrong on that. I have spent the better part of a day trying to find out why he was so intent on getting to Free Agency and leaving the Sox. Most of it seems to come from being called soft when he had the rib issues. I had thought I had read that his service time had been messed with when he was a rookie but I was wrong and cannot find that.
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He wants to go to FA because he doesn’t want to take a discount. It’s the Boras way.
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I think like Pap he does not want to be in Boston. Never mind a discount…I don’t think he likes it here. I had always thought it was because of the playing time. We will see. I think the Sox could throw $200 mill at him and he would not consider it.
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It’s been reported since he first went to arbitration that he wasn’t going to sign a long term deal before hitting FA, which is the same as Papelbon. The Red Sox didn’t want to sign Papelbon when he readched FA because they didn’t want to pay that much.
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To be fair LTD, outside of Felger, who do you tune in to in this town to eagerly await their opinion? There really aren’t that many names on the list if any. Look, I like Holley and I like a few national radio shows (which to me is what S+H sound like) and I don’t mind a low key ,non-screamfest type of show. I understand you don’t like him but ther aren’t many truly entertaining and informative hosts in this town.
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I used to look forward to the Big Show to hear certain guests…tom E Curran, Sean McAdam, Bob Ryan, Steve Nelson when he was still on. I liked DA although at the end he got a little Felger like. I always looked forward to the Dale and Neumy show…especially if they were discussing the business of sports. Currently when a big story breaks I am far more interested in hearing what F&M are going to say than almost anyone else. I think Felger’s 2 year assault on the BBWA and the NBA are very in line with my thinking so I find them interesting.
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On the local end?
Sunday morning during NFL season, the 9-12 w/Dale on WEEI (cprice/chatham/faulk) is the best listen in town. Look forward to G+Z during NFL season as they don’t just cover Pats and incorporate some college (only option in town), enjoy Jack Edwards when he’s doing hockey. Mannix when he’s on doing NBA.
LTD’s point wasn’t that he said too much (scream fest) but that he didn’t say enough. It’s been said before by Ryan/Bruce and others that you won’t last long doing the “vanilla” (Mike and Mike on ESPN in the morning) approach. LTD listed the differences between people who had a lot of access that are opinion movers, where Holley gets not only lost but forgotten about. So, what happened?
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Read your note, Siggy–interesting take. I’ve thought that an alpha/beta pairing of Mike and Tony worked, but maybe it’s possible to improve on.
To chime in parallel with what LTD wrote, I’ve often thought of the difference between Bob Ryan and Sean McAdam. Ryan is of course the dean of Boston sports, above all basketball. He, like the other writers, started out reporting and became a columnist over time. He’s the most respected voice in Boston sports. McAdam…he’s a well respected reporter, but his opinions range from vague to just conventional wisdom. You’d think a guy with so much time spent with Boston baseball would have more interesting observations and opinions, but he doesn’t. Every time he opens his mouth I feel a nap coming on. (But unlike Holley he doesn’t host a 4-hour daily show so this doesn’t matter as much.)
One small comment on Salk & Holley, for what little it’s worth. I think EEI timed Ordway’s firing partly with the start of baseball season. The Sox should give EEI the same ratings bounce they did last year, so any lack of interest in the new show will be to an extent masked by baseball season. This in effect gives Salk & Holley an extended spring training to get some kind of game on. I don’t think they will, but I’m just projecting.
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Hey Ryan…just want to say that I think you are a fine writer and i like your insights. Don’t always agree with you but that’s ok. As i have stated before I hate the sheep like mentality that goes on here sometimes in regards to how people think others should think and talk about the local teams and radio personalities.
You need differing opinions…even controversial ones to more fully flesh out the standard assumptions or maybe change someone’s mind on a certain subject. And that’s ok it’s called GROWTH.
Keep up the good work.
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Awesome article shared with us. I do completely agree with you that Felger all the time number 1. I have to say that Felger is better with Beetle.
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Speaking of the morning shows… itnever gets old when you have social media warfare. All started from this:
@JohnDennisWEEI Love the NESN in game promo CORRECTLY points out @JohnDennisWEEI & @GerryCallahan is MOST LISTENED to morning show in ALL of New England
Check out the fireworks from each Tweet/convo:
Best one:
@BlakeJM @JohnDennisWEEI if I’m not mistaken apples to apples in Boston, 1 FM channel to 1 FM channel, @Toucherandrich crush your show.
@JohnDennisWEEI @BlakeJM Turn ur cap around loser and understand the facts. THE most listened to morning show in ALL of New England. Maybe even U can grasp.
@JohnDennisWEEI @BlakeJM So maybe you think we should have Kirk Minnehan killed over the weekend? Just asking.
(He still won’t spell his name properly..)
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